Book Cover - Matching Minds with Sondheim: The Puzzles and Games of the Broadway Legend
Matching Minds
with Sondheim

ep23 Matching Minds at BroadwayCon, with 3 special guests

ep23 Matching Minds at BroadwayCon, with 3 special guests

Feb 12, 2026

Come with Matching Minds to BroadwayCon in New York City during a frigid snowstorm! This episode features special guests and Broadway stars Etai Benson, George Lee Andrews, and Marty Morris, sharing their connections with Sondheim’s puzzles and games. Etai recounts receiving a custom, personalized jigsaw puzzle from Sondheim for his role in Company. George and Marty take us back 53 years to share memories of the Sondheim/Perkin’s Shubert Theater treasure hunt for the cast of A Little Night Music. The audience participates in live trivia rounds (play along from home) and a reenactment of Sondheim’s famous Murder Game. And suffer through our attempt at a podcast theme-song sign-a-long…

Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, ⁠⁠or click here⁠⁠.

00:00 Introduction to Matching Minds with Sondheim

00:05 Experiencing BroadwayCon in New York City

00:28 Diverse Activities at BroadwayCon

01:00 Sondheim’s Puzzles and Games

01:28 Special Guests: Broadway Performers

02:41 Sondheim’s Multifaceted Career

03:03 Sondheim’s Influence and Legacy

04:16 Interactive Trivia and Games

05:41 Exploring Sondheim’s Puzzles

09:47 Special Guests: George Lee Andrews and Marty Morris

17:26 A Visit to Steve Sondheim’s House

18:05 Round Three: Word Puzzles

19:25 Round Four: Mechanical Puzzles

19:57 Special Guests: Etai Benson

25:46 Round Five: Parlor Games

26:34 The Murder Game

30:44 Conclusion: Matching Minds with Sondheim

Special Links:

 

Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode: the Musical Stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, our line producer Dennis Caouki, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy and sung by the one only Anne Morrison, currently on the road starring in Kimberly Akimbo.

TRANSCRIPT

Barry Joseph: Welcome to Matching Minds with Sondheim, the podcast. This episode we’re gonna travel to BroadwayCon in New York City.

But luckily you won’t have to do it the way I did in five degree frigid weather. This was the weekend of the incredible snowstorm in New York where people were canceling flights and we were being told, don’t go outside, but I braved it as did the Broadway fans at BroadwayCon.

I’ve never been to BroadwayCon before. It was really fun to find out what a wide range of activities there were. I saw Susan Stroman, one of my heroes as director and choreographer, talking about how she created. Some of her amazing choreography and then showing examples on the screen.

There was a room where people were just essentially doing fast patter karaoke. I think there was a puppet making workshop. And of course, all sorts of opportunities for people to shop in the bazaar where there was all sorts of amazing Broadway themed fan merchandise.

Panels and sessions on a wide range of topics. And of course, yes, me getting to talk about Steven Sondheim and his puzzles and games, I’m happy to share this one with all of you ’cause this is what has become one of my standard variety sessions. This is one where I get to review something from each of the five areas of Sondheim’s puzzling life.

His parlor games, his board games, his treasure hunts, his word puzzles, and his mechanical puzzles. But I can swap anything I want in and out, and sometimes that includes people. So in this one, you’re gonna not just get one and not two, but three guests who I was so excited to get to meet in person for the first time. Yes, I’ve interviewed them for my book and talked to them over email, but I’d never met any of them in person. And those three Broadway performers are Etai Benson, George Lee Andrews, and Marty Morris.

It was not only thrilling to connect with the BroadwayCon audience, but it was thrilling to get to speak. With these three amazing individuals in front of this crowd and get to explore their connection with Steven Sondheim’s puzzles and games. And of course, as we go through it, you’re gonna get to hear and play at home some of the trivia that begins each of the sections.

So have a good time, Enjoy, and I hope to see you at one of these talks, sometime in the future.

And let me get the obvious question out of the way. Yes, that’s Stephen Sondheim. Composer. Lyricist. To some one of the greatest creative minds of the 20th century. To others, just God. And game designer… and puzzle constructor… And escape room enthusiast… and Jigsaw Gifter. And so much more. The Sondheim most of us know and revere from his works just a few blocks from here, on Broadway, also produced work they argue they’re just as compelling a nd beguiling in the the space of puzzles and games. But first, I’m thrilled to be here today at BroadwayCon in New York City with all of you. Mere blocks from so many theaters where I experienced Sondheim Productions. Put up your hand if you’ve seen a Sondheim production anywhere in Broadway. Look at those hands. That’s beautiful. I’m also so appreciative that you’ve all stood up against the oppressive forces outside to make it here this afternoon and put up with the frigid weather. Pause for knowing laughter. And welcome to a very special presentation of Matching Minds with Sondheim and not just because you’re being recorded right now for my podcast. I love to speak with folks like you because it gives me an opportunity to invite voices to step out of my book and join me in person. So today we have, and please count with me, not one, not two, but three special people who I only got to know through speaking with them over Zoom f or my book. And who I will get to meet for the first time in person as I get to introduce ’em up here to be with us and share some of the stories they share with me, but live, with all of you. So to get things rolling, can I ask you to give a cheer to all of our listeners on the count of three? 1, 2, 3.

Woo.

Beautiful. Now I have a background in both game design and, well, being a Sondheim fan. And this project began when I received these three books. , Some of them I imagine some of you recognize. The last one I’ll highlight is Putting It Together. Which begins with James Lapine interviewing many decades later, Stephen on when they first met. Soon after the critical disaster of Merrily We Roll Along, which barely got through nine performances, and more importantly, the critics loved tearing it apart. Sondheim, at that time, was thinking about leaving theater, and James Lapine said, “what are you gonna do”? And he said, “I thought, I don’t wanna be in this profession. It’s just too hostile and mean-spirited. So yes, I was really thinking, what else can I do? I thought I’d love to invent games, video games, and that was what I really wanted to do.”

When I read that, I thought, who are you and what did you do with Stephen Sondheim? I began to dig into the research, which led me to seven different research institutions like the Library of Congress and Yale. And I’ve reviewed scores of articles, analyzed hundreds of audio from previous interviews and conducted my own original interviews. Over a hundred. And what I’ve learned could barely fit into a book. Let alone into a 40 minute presentation. But I’ve always loved a challenge or a good puzzle. So what did Sondheim do with puzzles and games? Let’s listen to what he had to say in this interview with Charles Osgood.

Charles Osgood: In a sense, the fascination with puzzles can’t help but wonder about whether that’s in any way analogous to putting together a show?

Stephen Sondheim: Oh, it’s very much. I think that’s what art is anyway. After all, a puzzle like art is making order out of chaos. You know, we take a jigsaw puzzle, right? It’s chaos. Put together a picture. And I think art is the same way on a slightly, slightly higher level.

Barry Joseph: Order out of chaos. This is a phrase Sondheim would repeat over many decades. Puzzles were a way to spin chaos into order when he designed puzzles. He was creating experiences for others to have that aha moment when confusion melts into clarity. Think about any moment of clarity you felt today or this week, solving a puzzle. Anyone solve a puzzle?

Audience Member 1: Mm-hmm.

Barry Joseph: What’d you solve?

Audience Member 1: Either the solitaire or like what are the connection games.

Barry Joseph: Connection game. How’d you feel when you solved that connection game?

Audience Member 1: Pretty good.

Barry Joseph: Good. Right. Now games are different. They’re not about moments of clarity, they’re about moments of connection. When you design a game, you’re creating an opportunity for players to connect with one another and with yourself as the designer. Think about any moments of connections you’ve had playing a game. Who played a game with someone in the last week? Anyone in the back? Who’d you play with?

Audience Member 2: An entire tournament of people.

Barry Joseph: Wow. And how much of that enjoyment of playing it came from getting to play backgammon versus playing with all those people.

Audience Member 2: Equal.

Barry Joseph: Equal, right. So important. And again, in summary, Sondheim used puzzles to create moments of clarity and games to create moments of connection. Your job now is to kind of watch for any examples of this in the different games and puzzles we’ll be looking at today from Stephen Sondheim. And this is a map of the territory. The territory being the puzzling and playful interests of Stephen Sondheim. Board games, parlor games, treasure hunts. Cryptic crosswords. And physical puzzles. And to explore these, we’re gonna play some trivia puzzles, and I’m gonna interrupt the puzzles every once in a while with the special guests who will help us go deeper into a number of these areas.

Trivia round one. Board game. Which line did Sondheim require his players to say? At the start of his first board game, A: hello darling. B: stars, stars shine tonight. C: it’s a goddamn lie. And D: I read in Hedda Hopper, darling, whom you’re sleeping with. So take a moment to think and I’m gonna ask you to shout out A, B, C, or D, on the count of three. 1, 2, 3.

Audience:: C, BI

Barry Joseph: I heard mostly C. A few b’s. The answer is B. Stars, stars shine tonight. But all of these are phrases that you are required to do at some point in the game. But the game started with B. So I’m gonna ask you as we get started today to join me in using Sondheim’s words to get us started. So on the count of three, please read letter B. 1, 2, 3

Audience:: Star, star shine tonight!

Barry Joseph: Ah, beautiful darlings! This is the board game that it was from was called The Game of Stardom. Or Camp. He made it in 1953 when he was in Los Angeles. And this is the original board for stardom designed by none other than Foxy Sondheim. His mother. Are we ready for round two? Treasure hunts. Identify the New York City institution around which Sondheim did not, did not design a treasure hunt. A: New York City Center. B: the New York Public Library. C: the American Museum of Natural History. And D: the Schubert Theater. Take a moment to think about your answer.

I’m gonna say 1, 2, 3, and I’ll ask you to shout out your answer. 1, 2, 3

Audience:: B / C / D

Stephen Sondheim: I heard a whole combination. I love that Sondheim fooled you all because the answer is the New York Public Library. ’cause he did design for the others. But he did consider the New York Public Library and did case it for one point for a treasure hunt. I am now ready to bring to the stage, two of our guests. I am so excited ’cause I am literally meeting them right now. They just walked in. They were so incredible in speaking with me for my book, sharing their Stories, which I shared in the book. And the two of them in the book come across as the most adorable couple in the world. So that’s why I’m so excited to meet from it today. That’s right. That’s right.

And I would like you now to join and clap for bringing to our stage performers from the shows who together brought some of Broadway’s most beloved shows to life. George Lee Andrews and Marty Morris.

Audience:: Oh my God.

Barry Joseph: Guys come have seats over here. Hi. Thank you so much for coming.

George Lee Andrews: Yes, our pleasure.

Marty Morris: This looks like fun.

Audience Member 2: Can you still get your head… your feet above your head?

Marty Morris: Yeah.

Audience Member 2: For kick turns.

Marty Morris: At times. Doesn’t everybody do yoga?

Audience Member 2: I mean, for kick turns.

Barry Joseph: That question clearly had a background behind it… So in 1973, I understand that both of you were involved with a production called-

Marty Morris: A Little Night Music.

George Lee Andrews: Yes.

Barry Joseph: And it started out in the Schubert Theater.

George Lee Andrews: Mm-hmm.

Barry Joseph: But it had to move. Why did it have to move? Why did it move to another theater?

George Lee Andrews: To get more seats.

Barry Joseph: To get more seats.

George Lee Andrews: Because it was a hit.

Barry Joseph: But before you left. Nice, nice. Give more money. I see that. But before you left, there was a party. Is this the one, maybe yours, maybe someone else’s from your team?

George Lee Andrews: Yes. Yes.

Barry Joseph: And you can look here if like. And it said, please come for party on Thursday at 10 o’clock. And it says, game over there. Did you have any idea what you might expect when you arrived?

George Lee Andrews: No. Not until we got there. Right?

Marty Morris: Right.

Barry Joseph: Yeah.

Marty Morris: We thought it was a birthday party for Glynis Johns.

George Lee Andrews: Yes.

Barry Joseph: That’s her name right there. Yeah.

Marty Morris: And also, the show was moving from the Schubert Theater to the Majestic Theater. So it was a combination of those things, but we didn’t know there was gonna be a game. I don’t remember that.

George Lee Andrews: I don’t think so. But, you know, they had cleared out the Schubert. And then it was free. So then there were a lot of, wonderful people.

Speaker 5: Can you imagine that, that this was 53 years ago?

Barry Joseph: Amazing. So with your letter, did you also get a slice of a picture like this.

George Lee Andrews: Yes.

Barry Joseph: And we see here, by the way, a picture of Sondheim with Anthony Perkins, who he designed it with working on it beforehand.

George Lee Andrews: Yes.

Barry Joseph: So did you have any idea what this picture was or what it came from?

George Lee Andrews: No, we weren’t sure, but we soon find out that we were supposed to find other people’s who would find these puzzle pieces like that. And those people were supposed to get together. And put those puzzle pieces together. There were like five or six pieces.

Marty Morris: I would say, five or six pieces. So that’s how many people were in your team. And once you had your, everybody had their pieces put together to make the picture, then you knew who your team was and you were gonna travel together and try to win the prize.

Barry Joseph: Wow. And so what’s that on the back?

George Lee Andrews: There were clues on the black. Oh, clues on the back.

Barry Joseph: And so-

George Lee Andrews: in the black.

Barry Joseph: You probably can’t see from your seats. But these are all questions.

Marty Morris: So, the questions all came from lyrics in the music of A Little Night Music.

George Lee Andrews: Or stage things, you know, stage, what do you call that when you get a stage?

Barry Joseph: Stage direction.

George Lee Andrews: Stage direction. See how long it’s been?

Barry Joseph: It says, use the 10 tickets you collect in order to start your search. So on the right it says ticket number. So each of these questions somehow took you to a ticket. When was that exactly?

George Lee Andrews: And there were tickets hidden. And those clues got you to where the tickets were hidden, those pieces. And then you get the full clue and then you follow that to wherever the treasure was.

Barry Joseph: So the clues led you all over the theater.

George Lee Andrews: Yes.

Barry Joseph: When you found something that was correct, you got a ticket and you went to that seat in the theater.

Marty Morris: Yes.

Barry Joseph: Maybe then you got some information to put on the right.

Marty Morris: Well, one of the clues, for instance, was where were Petra’s skirts? And if you know A Little Night Music her skirts were way up high. So then you figured, well, the clue’s gonna be way up high somewhere. And it ended up being under a seat in the balcony.

George Lee Andrews: And so everybody was running around the theater, like crazy people trying to follow these clues. Some were in the dressing room, some were downstairs. They were all over the place.

Barry Joseph: And can I presume you two were on the same team?

Marty Morris: I don’t remember.

George Lee Andrews: I don’t remember either.

Barry Joseph: And that’s why they’re was still married today.

George Lee Andrews: Yeah. Yeah, I don’t know.

Barry Joseph: And do you remember where the treasure was at the end?

Marty Morris: I do. I remember. So when you came , from the street into the inner lobby of the Schubert Theater. In the old days there was a big wooden box with a slot in it, and the tickets went into that box. And it was right under a picture of Sam Schubert. And so inside that box was the treasure.. Which was however many members of your team. There was a bottle of champagne for each person on the team. And I think it was Moms champagne because I think that champagne was mentioned in the show.

Barry Joseph: And this card was given to me by someone else who was on the team that won. The printed card from Hallmark or wherever says, and best wishes for your happiness. But the handwritten note says, go eat and don’t gloat. And it’s signed by Stephen Sondheim and Anthony Perkins.

Marty Morris: It was such a surprise to see Tony Perkins there and, but they were such good friends. Sondheim and Perkins, but it was so cool to see Tony Perkins.

George Lee Andrews: Yes, it was such a huge thrill. It was a thrill to be amongst that whole group of wonderful people running around like crazy, people having fun. But they did this often as you know. Steve and Anthony would make up these treasure hunts that sometimes went all over the city. They would hire various limos. And a few people look get limos and then you’d have to follow these clues all over the city.

Barry Joseph: Now, did you ever get to go to Stephen Sondheim’s house in Turtle Bay ?

Marty Morris: Oh yeah. Yeah.

George Lee Andrews: Yes. I was gonna say, Marty and I got our great gift when we got into theater, when we spent our time trying to get into New York Theater. And finally at one point we got the best gift, which is we got cast in a show together. And so we got cast in a show called Comedy, but it failed in Boston. But we went to Boston and we did tryouts. But before we went there, I got cast in A Little Night Music. Which of course was a huge thrill. So going to Boston, I knew already that I had a job in the new Steve Sondheim, Hal Prince show, which was a huge thrill, and we were already a couple. And so all of a sudden we received this wonderful gift, which was we got into the Steve Sondheim / Hal Prince group who were working together, putting a new show together, and that opened up a world of wonderfulness for us-

Marty Morris: amazing to watch these people work. .

Barry Joseph: Then we just became a part of this group that we could. We were like the- the young hippie pals of all these guys. Oh, those are the kids. You know, Marty and George. Those are the kids we were like their- their hippie pals. But we got invited to everything and we went to everything and we got to everybody’s house and we got to all the parties and the Christmas parties-

Marty Morris: We went to Steve Sondheim’s house and he had games all over his walls and he had a fabulous chess set. I remember with, with the king was a tiny little boy king sitting in a very giant chair and doing cat’s cradle, you know, playing with a cat’s cradle. So that was mind blowing to just go to his home and-

George Lee Andrews: Continuous thrills like this for years if you loved the musical theater. And of course we did already.

Barry Joseph: George, Marty, I can spend all day talking with each two.

Marty Morris: Thank you so much everybody.

Barry Joseph: Thank you so much.

So we’re gonna go to round three of trivia. Word puzzles. Stephen was the founding puzzle editor of A: New York magazine, B: Games magazine, C: the New York Times, or D: Playbill. Take a few seconds to think and I’m gonna give you a countdown again and you shout it out. All right. 1, 2, 3

Audience:: A.

Barry Joseph: You got it. New York magazine. Anyone with a passing familiarity with the lyrics of Sondheim knows he had a remarkable ability with words. But word puzzles showed a different side of Sondheim.

Stephen Sondheim: You just don’t see words as collections of letters. I passed under this when Cinerama first was invented. I passed under the sign that was being erected on Broadway. I said, cama. I immediately thought American. Didn’t have to think about it.

Charles Osgood: Cinerama and America-

Stephen Sondheim: Are anagrams of each other.

Barry Joseph: When I see a word I see meaning. When Stephen Sondheim saw a word, he saw possibilities. His work at New York Magazine produced 42 crypto crossword puzzles in 1968 and 1969, and they would surely have earned him an obit in the New York Times because of the impact they’ve had, even if he hadn’t written a single song.

Moving on to round four. Mechanical puzzles, which mechanical puzzle was Stephen known to enjoy but couldn’t solve. A: jigsaw puzzles. B: escape rooms or C: puzzle boxes. Let’s do it together. 1, 2, 3.

Audience:: C.

Barry Joseph: C is correct. It is puzzle boxes. But this afternoon what we’re gonna get to dig into is jigsaw puzzles. ‘Cause someone who received one of those jigsaw puzzles is here with us today. Etai Benson, who is an actor best known for his Broadway roles in the Band’s Visit, Wicked and the reason he’s joining me today up, here with all of you here today: Company. Etai, welcome.

Etai Benson: Hi everybody.

Barry Joseph: Now I love my interview with Etai for the book. His conversation with me about his opening night gift from Sondheim, a deviously designed jigsaw puzzle was so moving, and his story is so generous and so beautifully conveyed, and I’m so excited we’ll get to hear more about it today. Before we say anything, I need to pull something out.

Etai Benson: Uh oh.

Barry Joseph: My playbook from the Band’s Visit when I first saw you. And from Company. Wow. When I last saw you this April 13th, you can clap. April 13th, 2022 when we all had to wear masks. On stage.

Etai Benson: It’s like a world ago.

Barry Joseph: And I’m gonna ask you to sign these later. Alright, so let’s talk about this.

Etai Benson: This was the puzzle we received for opening night. However, because of COVID. You know, our original opening was obviously delayed by about a year and a half. So this was set for our original opening. And what was so incredible about discovering this.. A: I didn’t know that this was his tradition and I’m a Sondheim fanatic and I’m surprised it’s something I didn’t know. So when we reopened, in 2021, following the initial COVID, you know, stuff. We started previews. He was there. He loved our production. We loved seeing him. He was, you know, in and out of rehearsals too. And then while we were in previews, he passed away. Right after Thanksgiving that year. And then we opened, and when you open a Broadway show, you’re flooded with opening night gifts. It’s amazing. And like, almost like too much. And there was this one little gift and it said Stave on it. I didn’t know what it was. I opened it up. And I saw that note from Stephen Sondheim after he had passed. A chill went down my spine. I couldn’t believe it was like he was sending a message from beyond in a way. It was like we were still having a conversation with him. Again, I didn’t know this tradition, so all I saw were these like, like you said, these devious little pieces. And I was like, of course it’s a puzzle.

Because I knew that he was obsessed with puzzles and games and all this stuff. There’s no more appropriate gift. I put it together and I’m sitting there with my wife and we’re trying to solve it, and it’s very emotional as I’m doing this. And then I noticed that there’s these strange notches. First of all, I didn’t know that the balloons like that it’s not just a square. I didn’t know that it’s gonna be a regular..

Barry Joseph: Like there’s no picture on the box. Right?

Etai Benson: It’s truly- Yeah, no, no picture on the box. And you know, the puzzle, it’s just like his work in musicals. He’s surprising. All the pieces fit beautifully together. But you never know how they’re gonna fit together. One of his mantras was “God is in the details” and there’s these details, and the detail I discovered was my initials. Yeah, in the balloon. At first, I wasn’t sure those notches, I thought it was like a mistake. I thought it was like an error in the printing. But then of course we took another look and I gasped and I said, that’s, those are my initials. And it’s that detail. That to me is like, it’s a unique generosity of him. He could have just made a puzzle. He could have done nothing. We don’t care. Like it’s freaking Sondheim, like whatever. You don’t have to do anything. But it could have just been a puzzle and I would’ve been so moved, but it was a personalized puzzle and that he took the care, to do that was just such a beautiful act of generosity that I will never forget, and I’ll never forget the experience of putting this together, putting it together literally. And, and, um, and it still sits there basically in the area where I first, where I first put it together and it marks that.

Barry Joseph: Since December, 2021.

Etai Benson: Since December, 2000. I should probably put it in glass or something. I will! But I just, I just love looking at it. It reminds me of a very, um, a very emotional time for many reasons.

Barry Joseph: And then you went back to work. With your colleagues who also got gifts.

Etai Benson: Yes.

Barry Joseph: And then you learn that this is not something he just did for “Company”..

Etai Benson: Like, you know, Chris Fitzgerald had done a show with him before and had one. I think Christopher Sieber, who was in our production, this was like his third. This is a thing that he has done for years and years. Oh, also the pieces I believe are kind of, they’re made of wood. It’s not like cardboard they’re wood.

Barry Joseph: In 1993 for Putting It Together the production of the revue that came from England, it was here off-Broadway. That was the first time he gave a Stave, that’s the company in Vermont, a Stave jigsaw puzzle. And from then on, that was his opening night gift. An image of the poster from the show so people would recognize it and their initials inside it. And as Etai’s pointing out with the fact that his name is flat, right the way you expect it to be on the outside, it’s not what you expect. And the bubble, the balloons are popping out on the side, not what you expect. This one’s unusual ’cause it’s, there’s so many flat parts on the outside. They’re designed to use what you know about puzzles and use it against you. He isn’t designing it. Stave is designing it, but they’re working with Sondheim and doing it. Because that’s what he’s looking for. To give people like Etai that kind of experience, to thank them for bringing his shows to life.

Etai Benson: And I look at this puzzle, I look at it at home, I look at it now, and it just reminds me of how much I mark, I mark my life kind of before and after Company. We started, we got nine previews in COVID shut us down. Within that year and a half, I lost my father. I got married. Like big life events. And then we lost Sondheim and it was almost like my Into the Woods moment, a little bit of like, of a coming of age. And like a loss of innocence , and I look at this puzzle and that it evokes all of that for me. So that’s what’s very special to me about this. Particular piece.

Barry Joseph: GIve it up for Etai Benson. Thank you so much.

Alright, we’re moving on to, because the clock is ticking. I saw a sign in the back. Round five parlor games. Which movie Murderer didn’t stop at the screen. His actor once played a killer in one of Stephen’s own parlor games. A: Frankenstein’s Monster. B: Bruno Antony from Strangers on Train. C: Norman Bates from Psycho. And D Rhoda Penmark from the Bad Seed. Alright, the count of three, yell out your letter.

1, 2, 3.

Audience:: C. C.

Barry Joseph: Norman Bates, you got it? Anthony Perkins. He keeps popping up. So in 1965, Stephen was out of town watching a show from his friend Phyllis Newman. And, her show flopped and he said, what can I do? And she said, when I come back to New York, make a games night for me. Design a game. And he said, I’ll do that. So he came back to New York and he designed The Murder Game. Some of you might have seen me do this before, depending on our time, it goes longer or shorter. My key thing is to give you a chance to solve it. So I’ll leave out some of the fun tidbits except to say we have all of his instructions to play it.

And this is an image of those right here. And it was designed to be done in his townhouse in friends’ townhouses, which we cannot do here. This is not a townhouse. So how could we actually do it? Well, it turns out in January, 1983, a version of it was adapted by him for Games magazine, and that’s it. On the right, it says, Stephen Sondheim invites you to play detective at his house. Now it’s actually two things. It literally includes all the people he played with. It is a game version of his own autobiography of this game. ‘Cause the whole language says you come into his house and here’s what happens. And I’m gonna take you through a version of that now. So you are all gonna be one person. And I’m gonna be the person who got those instructions from him you saw earlier. That’s Director Herbert Ross. I take out a deck of cards. You take a randomly a card from me and you take number seven. Okay. And you look around and see who else is in the party. Yell out to people. You see who you know.

Audience:: Leonard Bernstein!

Barry Joseph: These are all the people he played with at the time, and you’re like, I’m one of them. You’re totally chill and relax. And he gives you instructions. We here are in the safe room, you need to leave ’cause instructions tell you to leave, and everyone has a different room. You’re told to go to the kitchen. Go to your room, look for a photo and bring it back.

When you’re here, you’re safe, but when you’re out, you’re not safe. So get the photo and get back. But don’t be killed by the killer ’cause someone else was told they’re the killer. Okay, so you leave, do you think you make it back?

Audience:: Yes.

Barry Joseph: You do. You get this photo. It’s a bunch of Scrabble pieces.

Audience:: Puzzler.

Barry Joseph: Oh. She saw the clue that I put in. Things like that and errors are all mine. And then you come back and I tell you, put your envelope on the table where you got your instructions and put your photo on top. So there we are on the lower left. Number seven, , our name is what your envelope, right? And there’s a picture on top. And here’s other people, Tony Schafer’s and Leonard Bernstein’s. But on the right, Lee Remnick. Peter Schaeffer, Phylis Newman, they have no photo. Why?

Audience:: They’re dead.

Barry Joseph: So, Herbert Ross now says, here’s what you gotta do. You have to figure out who the murderer is. No surprise. But you also have to prove it unequivocally. So the murderer knows who they are ’cause they did it. The victims know who the murderer is. They were killed, but even they can play. Because they have to figure out how to unequivocally prove it. Using the information here. How much time do we have, guys? Two minutes. Go. If you want to accuse someone, put up your hand. And Sondheim would always say, “talk out loud when you’re trying to figure out his puzzles, you might build on what someone else is saying”.

Audience Member 2: I would say Tony Perkins.

Barry Joseph: You wanna make an accusation? Tony Perkins. How do you prove it’s Tony Perkins?

Audience Member 2: Cause puzzler and chess? And he liked to play other games, right?

Barry Joseph: So remember, anybody could have gotten any number. It was random in the beginning, so I’m sorry. Not… I forgot to say if by the end of the time we don’t figure it out, the murderer gets away. Who do you wanna accuse?

Audience Member 1: Jerome Robbins.

Barry Joseph: She’s gonna choose Jerome Robbins. Why are you gonna accuse Jerome Robbins?

Audience Member 1: Because the number of items in each photo don’t correspond with the number of their like card.

Barry Joseph: Gimme an example. Where’s one that does correspond?

Audience Member 1: So like for Tony Perkins, there are three records. So there’s only four people in Jerome’s picture. His number’s eight.

Barry Joseph: So who did Jerome Robbins get that photo from?

Audience Member 1: Peter Schaffer.

Barry Joseph: Wow. That’s absolutely correct. Give it up for her. What’s your name? What’s her name?

Audience Member 2: Emma.

Barry Joseph: Emma. Congratulations Emma. Well done. She won Stephen’s party. That’s how the murder game works. So what can that tell us about how Stephen’s mind worked? But what kind of aha moments he wanted to create, but what kind of moments of connection he wanted to create. Anything come to mind for anybody?

Audience:: Well, it always makes somebody feel good to be right.

Barry Joseph: It makes someone feel good to be right. And that moment of feeling right, Emma? Yeah. That was designed by Stephen Sondheim. For you. For you. Right. So we’ve come to the end of our very brief tour of Stephen Sondheim’s connection with Parlor games, board games, treasure hunts, cryptic crosswords and physical puzzles. But to end, I’m gonna need your help. We’re gonna go back to how we began on the count of three, please repeat after me. Stars. Stars. Shine tonight. Beautiful darlings, thank you so much.

Matching minds with Sondheim. Tell a friend and quiz him. Testimonials. Anagrams.. Pure hedonism. His songs in his shows. Mary Flynn. Mama Rose. Everybody already knows.. They’re superbly designed. But where would we be without a puzzle to bring us, glee, even someone in a tree would believe. We need Steve and his mind! Beautiful.

Audience Member 2: Can you still get your head… your feet above your head?

Marty Morris: Yeah.

Audience Member 2: For kick turns.

Marty Morris: At times. Doesn’t everybody do yoga?